TO ALL MEMBERS:
Due to change in field policies at Easterwood, board members are investigating the possibility and/or feasibility of moving the TEXAS A&M Flying Club to Coulter Field in Bryan.
PLEASE READ BELOW what we have considered so far and LET US know WHAT YOU THINK.

Among the issues to consider are maintenance on the field, hangar space or office space, relocation effect on membership, finance, etc…

* Option 1: move to Coulter
* Option 2: Stay at Easterwood (60th anniversary here on the
field) and get on the waiting list for a hangar
* Option 3: Ask alumni to donate for the construction of Hangar or own facilities
* Option 4: Other ideas by member feedback are welcome*
* Members vote will be schedule in August.
* *Next general meeting for the club will be held at Coulter field, August 23rd, 2007

moving to coulter could be exactly what the club needs. sometimes a big change sparks member participation. i think that we could do so much more as friends, and as a club of pilots, if we weren't under the cloud of easterwood.

_________________
If you mess with the Kings Queens, you better watch your Ace Jack.

I think that the move to coulter would decrease club cost/increase revenue for maint ect.. and probably increase participation despite the drive.

At first I was all for the move but after really thinking twice, I have reconsidered. First of all, what better advertisement is there for the club than having Easterwood right next to the University. If any students wanted to get involved, all they have to do is cross the street. Second, I really enjoy training out of Class D airspace. I think that it allows a student to really learn airport procedures, without the traffic of Class B & C or the monotony of Class E. Next, I use the club planes but have an instructor from somewhere else. He has already told me that he would not drive out to Coulter. Ordinarily, no problem... BUT, I would have to use different planes which cost more per hour than the clubs. My flying budget is already very tight and one lesson could potentially cost $50.00 more. If anybody can put a list of pro's and con's on this forum, I would love to see it so that we really have a good idea of what we are getting into

If I understand correctly, one of the more prominent issue seems to be costs, and staying at Easterwood would most likely cause them to escalate. It might be worthwhile to do some calculation to determine how the club's financial situation could change with a move to Coulter. If the numbers were to show that a move to Coulter is likely to mean less downtime due to maintenance issues, or perhaps something better, then the decision for most members would at least be less nebulous. I'm only supposing that costs are the major factor, which doesn't seem too far fetched since this is a flying club, whose identity as such depends upon the airworthiness of its aircraft.

Just out of curiosity, what were the changes in field policy at Easterwood?

I had a long, several hundred word post that I just deleted, because I realized I could summarize it (probably sounding a bit like a jerk, sorry).

1) If club prices (membership and wet rentals) are too low to remain at Easterwood, increase the rates. Coulter is too far away to easily get the influx of new people on which the club survives (due to students moving away after graduation). The University is doing everything it can to kill Easterwood, but right now it's still the best game in this county.

2) While you're at it, increase membership and wet rates enough to afford to get an A&P to come by Easterwood once a week and help Daniel. Keeping 00J leaned during takeoff, seriously? The club's had a bad rep with area A&Ps in the past due to slow payment, so start whatever work is required to mend those fences.

3) Happiness (and a booked aircraft) is a clean squawk board and a clean plane.

Jeff

I'm with madbomber. I really enjoy training out of Class D airspace, and I too have an instructor that works at Brazos Valley Flight school. Moving to Coulter would mean finding another instructor and a new flight school.

I would not be in favor of a move unless someone could show me that the pros out number the cons.

I drive up from Houston to take advantage of the flying clubs low rates. If the rate increase greatly it may be more cost effective for me to just find a local flight school. With that in mind I'd really like to vote on the subject, but I can't make it to a club meeting during the work week. I hope you will be mailing ballots to members who can't attend the meeting.

Matt

claiming that moving the club to coulter would inhibit class D airspace training, is incorrect. the instructors will let you fly the half a second trip form coulter to easterwood every time you want to. at the moment we are still based at cll, and how often to you spend time doing touch and gos at coulter? it will just as easy to fly from coulter to cll, as it is the other way around. the student pilots will get just as much class D time, even if we move to coulter.

about the costs...we have already communicated to the public that the move to coulter would decrease costs, not increase them. the tiedowns are cheaper, the fuel is cheaper, our building would be free, the list goes on and on. and since we are a club, and not a business, those savings would be passed on to the pilots in the form of cheaper prices for the airplanes.

_________________
If you mess with the Kings Queens, you better watch your Ace Jack.

I see both sides of the pros and cons. Cheaper flights if we move to coulter but i also can see new membership rates dropping if we made the move. Many new incoming freshman and long time students that always wanted to fly come to CLL because of the easy access from the university. I remember some one saying that we still have the contract on the club house so theres no real way that they could just come and kick us out if we moved most of our planes.

An idea that I just thought of would be to move 3 or 4 planes to coulter and leaving 1 or 2 at CLL for a little while so that those who have instructors at BV or that can not get transportation over to coulter would have something that they can use. This would lower the cost having more of the planes on cheaper tie downs but also accommodate a few to fly out of CLL at certain times.

This is just an idea that i had randomly though so im not sure how everything would work out right now.

_________________
From Upside Down The World Is A Much Better Place!

I like where your head's at Rifleshooter. If the club would be open to that, I am all in favor of leaving a 152 and a 172 at KCLL. I think that the move to Coulter is a good idea... I mean, I am all in favor of saving money! My only concern with the move is club membership and flight instructors from somewhere else not being able to go to Coulter. I am curious as to what percentage of new members already have a pilots license and what percentage use the club as a vehicle to get a pilots license. I think that would dictate whether we move or stay. The way this club operates is based on membership (the more members, the cheaper flying becomes), so my question is what are we going to do in order to get more non-students to join if membership started to decline??

Would someone please post just what the changes in policy at Easterwood are that prompted this discussion.

IF these include increases in costs, I'd like to know what the increases are. There was mention of getting on the hanger list - is that for an office? Are they kicking us out? We do;t have hanger space now that I know of. I have not checked lately, but I've beenon the hanger list for about 2-3 years now.

Has anyone compiled what the advantages are (if any) at coulter?

Thanks

Dr. Bob Reinhardt

It’s pretty clear that Easterwood airport management doesn’t want the club here. Coulter Field will make for a better club environment and save money. Staying at Easterwood for sentimental reasons doesn’t make sense.

"It’s pretty clear that Easterwood airport management doesn’t want the club here."

Where does this comment come from? What are the SPECIFICS of what has changed?

As I understand it the club is no longer allowed to so much as clean a spark plug while an aircraft is parked on the ramp. Airport management insists we pay a daily fee for use of a designated maintenance hanger. I guess that’s the big thing that has changed that brought about the idea of moving. But that’s not all. Consider that fuel is sold at a discount rate to other tenants on the field but not the flying club. Why is that?

Al:

I have talked with JohnHapp in the past so I e-mailed to find out what is going on. the policy change requires an insurance policy be in force for maintenance to be done. I can see that it might change things to have to go to a designated ara to do maintenance, but so far noone has put forth any hard figures. As with most topics like this there is usually an abundant of emotional reaction, well before any actual impact has been discussed. John is running an operation regulated by system policies, he has no desiire for the Club to leave.

I don;t know about the discount for fuel, but it is a simple atter to ask. There is usually no magic in decisions like that. If we use 1000 gals a and someone else uses 100,000 gal a month - well I would suspect they would pay less than us.

What I'd personally like to see is some bottom line numbers. Personally I think it would be a negative for the "A&M Flyinig Club" to not be housed at the airport that A&M owns.

System policy or the “cloud of Easterwood” as Dan might call it maybe exactly what the problem is. Lets face it these policies foster a sterile commercial airport environment. Why do you think that the waiting list for a hanger is years. There is plenty of space to build T-hangers. A&M doesn’t want rows of T-hangers with guys building kit planes on their field. There is a reason why Easterwood doesn’t look more like West Houston airport.

Indeed I would rather have the A&M flying club on A&M’s airport. It just doesn’t seem like A&M’s airport feels that way. By the way BVFS gets the fuel discount. They certainly don’t burn a 100,000 gallons a month. I would question whether they burn as much as the club. Perhaps someone on the board could generate a detailed cost analysis to see exactly what the financial impact of moving is.

I think A&M’s official flying club deserves more preferential treatment from A&M’s airport.

Respectfully

Allen Henry

As I am one who has no problem going to the source I thuoght I'd post a response I got from John Happ. I was once the fiancial manager of the Ent AFB areo club in Colorado Springs and understand that money runs things so I agree that a detail cost analysis (rather than the emotional impact of the issue) would be a step in the right direction. I really don't think most people recognize the impact of RISK on the univesity. It would be an intolerable situation for a state entity to put itself in the same risk postion as a public organization. I thik if one reads John's reply with the right perspective you will see that Easterwood is not just a university asset - granted the university owns it, but like many aspects of the uiversity - it serves a much larger community. I have been the financial head of the Memorial Student Center for the past 7 years and wold be more than happy to participae in a financial analysis of the impact of the changing environment. Here is John's e-mail: (if you are unfamiliar with the term -(I hope not) - FOD = Foreign Object Damage)


Bob,

I appreciate your response and you are absolutely right, there is a lot of emotion without fact. We give everyone at the airport the same discount on fuel and that is based on the quantity bought monthly by each customer. I will check to see how we count the flying club. As far as maintenance is concerned, only wet maintenance has to be done in the T-hangar we are now dedicating for this purpose, i.e. oil changes etc and these can be accomplished by the owners. Any other light/dry maintenance will have to be accomplished in an area yet to be dedicated on the north ramp, i.e. if you want to change spark plugs or even a light bulb the aircraft will have to be towed or taxied to this spot. We are doing this to try and reduce the amount of FOD we continually find on the ramp. Maybe other airports don’t see this as a problem but with the amount of turbo and jet traffic we often get; FOD is a major concern. We want a good transient business because it helps keep prices down for our based customers and when we have pilots complain about FOD it becomes a deterrent to transient aircraft. This is not saying that we are ignoring our based customers because I think they too want a professionally run airport and don’t want FOD on the ramp.

Only maintenance that requires a certified mechanic to accomplish it will we require insurance. The risk factor is much greater than you think. If while working on this aircraft another aircraft is damaged (by fire or any other means); the airport (A&M) can’t afford to be held accountable. We require any maintenance company that has a contract to do maintenance at Easterwood to have this insurance and we think all mechanics doing major maintenance at Easterwood should have to operate under the same rules.

FAA has rules about airports that receive grant money allowing someone to make money at this kind of airport without paying the airport a fee or percentage. This is called “diversion of funds”. On the same note they do not want airport management

to keep anyone from doing business or effectively making it single source for everyone to have to use a certain maintenance company. We just want it to be a level playing field for everyone and having insurance is an area that we (A&M) feel is important for our own protection. The only fee we will be charging will be the rent on the hangar where we expect the work to be accomplished; we do not charge a fee or percentage of what the mechanic is charging their customer. There are other areas that we have looked at that are just as difficult to keep clear that might/could be considered a “diversion of funds.” So far we haven’t had any problems in these areas but other airports have had problems.

Sorry for this long dissertation but I just wanted to try to communicate our position so miss-information is kept at a minimum. Gary Teston and I both will be happy to meet with any of the Club members that feel we are not treating everyone equally and aren’t giving the based customers more than we give transient customers, especially in service.

jhapp

First, I would like to thank all that have posted thus far. Your feedback will help the club make the right decision. I pose a few thoughts on the subject.

The club is entering its 60th anniversary, and we have been recognized by Texas A&M University for many of those years. As a club, we have made efforts to build a strong foundation at Texas A&M including establishing our home at Easterwood Field. Times are changing in aviation, and we may have to make the decision to move for many reasons. However, hasty decisions need not apply.

There is a significant cost savings with the move to Coulter, but a major concern is the loss of membership. For the benefit of the club, we need to know that our membership will not dissolve if our operation is displaced elsewhere. If we lose membership, we lose the reason we started this debate in the first place.

Another issue is facilities. We currently reside in the GA Hangar under what is called "Pioneering" clause, which entitles the club to that facility at a small fee and utilities costs are waived. This is due to the fact that we were displaced from a previous facility on the field, and the airport essentially gave the club a new home. The facilities available at Coulter, as of now, are no where near what our space is at Easterwood. There is always room to grow and update, but initially we would be in a much smaller, less equipped facility at Coulter. There is discussion of possibly building a facility at Coulter, but that is future topic.

Airport environment is also important to the club. Easterwood has a tendency to be named very GA unfriendly, and that attitude effects the aviators within the club. In regards to training, Easterwood is a great facility. Class D airspace with multiple approaches served by Houston ARTC and consistent military traffic make this airport a healthy training environment. Students pilots, and rated pilots for that matter, should not make their decision to move the club based on the existence of a control tower. If you are unfamiliar or afraid of towered airport operations, receive training from a club CFI. Apathy towards an airport based on communications is unacceptable.

I ask that all members take into consideration these items. Please encourage your Flying Aggie friends to join this forum and spread the word on this and other topics. This resource is valuable for many reasons, most importantly member communication. The members have asked for a communication solution and we have answered, now utilize! Take care and blue skies!

Brad Tribley
President

In my opinion, cost is not necessarily the issue. It is prety cut and dry...Coulter is cheaper. It makes all the sense in the world to move and none to stay at Easterwood. However. The ONLY concern that I have is the membership. I believe that the club officers and the board should assemble a contingency plan to increase membership, should the move to Coulter make membership rates decline. The SURVIVAL of this club is dependent on member rates and participation. I would like to see the elected officials implement some kind of plan to keep this club above the clouds.

The people that we (club memebers) have put into the position of leadership do a phenominal job of keeping this club alive and running. Our elected leaders need input from all members to help them decide what direction to take the club.

I would hate to see the voting outcome be 51% to 49% either way. As a club, we need to put our heads together and come up with a soulution. By the way the voting is starting to look, we are very split in the way that we think. I don't know if anyone else has thought about it, but the way that the votes look now, I am afraid we may lose some members no matter the outcome. We need to UNITE and make the right decision and do all that we can to assist our leadership. We all have a voice. Please encourage other members to join this site and give their opinion.

Before this decision can be made there is quite a bit that needs to be discussed. I like the fact that we are trying to get the issue out and have a general discussion about it, but I see flaws in this plan.

Someone or a group need to take apart every issue of this decision and make a good pro con sheet to present to the club members so that a good vote can be taken. The vote needs to be defined, all members get one vote, majority rules?

A task force if you want to call it that should be assigned to head up this issue, I feel it should be conprised of at least someone from the board, a new pilot, a CFI and older pilot. This group should collect all the data to present to the club and a vote should be taken no earlier than December.

I won't go through all the issues I can think of right now, but will try to present my views on addressing this matter tomorrow at the meeting.

Derek Groh